tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post5723258963760085280..comments2023-10-26T09:55:21.467-04:00Comments on Ian Lawton: Tolerant of Everything Except IntoleranceIan Lawtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14515453952874757497noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-38955028027206188852010-08-25T16:20:59.171-04:002010-08-25T16:20:59.171-04:00Matthew, you speak in absolutes, but unless one is...Matthew, you speak in absolutes, but unless one is convinced that the Bible is absolutely authoritative, you sound like a Scientologist claiming the absolute truth of Thetans. I have spent 40 years in Absolute-Bible-Truth-Land. And I'm no longer convinced it is authoritative. Yelling, threats, quoting the Bible itself, and arbitrary capitalization of nouns cannot convince me that the Bible is authoritative.Pithernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-11586231056709931082010-08-25T15:16:04.491-04:002010-08-25T15:16:04.491-04:00Christ absolutely did commune with sinners to conv...Christ absolutely did commune with sinners to convert them! Hmmm do you remember Him telling anyone to go and sin no more? Or do you remember him saying that people who did not do the will of His Father were children of the Devil?<br /><br />You need to pray and find salvation...you are a wolf in sheep's clothing.<br /><br />The Church I pastor isn't large but we hold to the truth. A Church full of false converts is useful only to Satan, or do you not believe in him?Matthew Ervinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00625690952653844334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-9546193343964176082010-07-15T17:06:28.689-04:002010-07-15T17:06:28.689-04:00Thankyou Ian, but I am not entirely the same perso...Thankyou Ian, but I am not entirely the same person you once knew...so much has changed. Five years ago I had been wandering through life, completely lost, telling myself I had it all together, grasping at the things of this world for security, completely ignorant that I was even lost. I was thirsting and searching for so long for Jesus; the only one I was resisting was the one I needed the most. <br />I finally threw my hands up and surrendered and EVERYTHING changed; the scales fell from my eyes, the light went on.<br /> All I simply said was "I cannot lead myself, I am not good at it; I need You God". I was blind, now I see. I understand Bible verses that were seemingly so foolish to me for years. My mind is being transformed and renewed daily. I never never never could have even dreamed this was even possible.<br /> I suppose I am fortunate to have not grown up in a church with the Dogma and hyposcrisy that has left such a sour taste in the mouths of your community..I had the full blown born again experience..and I don't need to rely on other Christians and what they are doing to feel good or embarassed about my relationship with God. I know the author of life, and His grace is sufficient for me.<br /><br />Would Love to have coffe with you and share more...I am in constant prayer for these things for you, your family, and the entire SBNR community. I know deep down you mean well and aim to help people. The church has hurt many, your movement is a response to that. I would love to share Jesus with you in a fresh way Ian. Many many blessings on you and yours friend!Jen Znoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-71947299619680653242010-07-12T20:56:12.211-04:002010-07-12T20:56:12.211-04:00Thanks Jen. You're the same person I remember ...Thanks Jen. You're the same person I remember and appreciate.<br />Namaste<br />IanIan Lawtonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-30718086638775105232010-07-12T17:56:29.893-04:002010-07-12T17:56:29.893-04:00Whoever said "Keep the faith" is off...I...Whoever said "Keep the faith" is off...I say "Spread the faith"..its too good not to share.<br /><br />Everyone pushes in different directions. Ian you may push that the Word has no authority and I assert that it does. You can convince from your heart and experiences, and I convince from mine. We used to believe the same things, and the plan was to go out and convince others of what we knew. I obviously took a detour I would have NEVER expected..call it Divine intervention..I don't know!. I do love this dialogue we have though and appreciate the open conversation on these matters. Just don't delete stuff please :) Everyones perspective matters, even this Bible thumpin Detroit Jew girl turned evangelist, lol...now only God could come up with that :)<br /><br />Blessings to you all!!Jen Znoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-23842068336896446192010-07-12T17:40:14.805-04:002010-07-12T17:40:14.805-04:00Free will, such a beautiful thing...we all have a ...Free will, such a beautiful thing...we all have a choice :)<br /><br />Thanks for your thoughts Pither, bless you.Jen Znoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-15517521925910865702010-07-12T14:54:07.918-04:002010-07-12T14:54:07.918-04:00Jen Z, It's great that the Bible has had an im...Jen Z, It's great that the Bible has had an impact on your life. I have no doubt that the Koran, the Book of Mormon, and To Kill a Mockingbird have had profound effects on the lives of millions of others. But surely a book's effect on someone does not make it authoritative.<br /><br />I think for some people the desire for an absolute authority in convenient book form is the drug addiction. And I'm glad to say that with encouragement from folks like Ian, I've kicked my 40-year addiction. Peace, Jen.Pithernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-4719488464926495512010-07-12T14:31:11.052-04:002010-07-12T14:31:11.052-04:00Hi all, interesting comments. Jen, I totally agree...Hi all, interesting comments. Jen, I totally agree with Pither about the Bible. I read it seriously but not literally. It doesnt hold moral authority in my life, but it does hold great inspiration.<br /><br />Jen, I'm so glad you find meaning in metaphors such as Jesus climbing down a ladder. Im genuinely pleased that these metaphors move you. As is always the case with metaphors, they have different impact for different people (much like the Bible stories and metaphors)<br /><br />Enjoy your metaphors, just dont be too pushy in expecting others to find the same meaning.Ian Lawtonhttp://www.soulseeds.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-30359855231552637982010-07-12T12:57:47.674-04:002010-07-12T12:57:47.674-04:00More thoughts..
I don't care if you wear paja...More thoughts..<br /><br />I don't care if you wear pajamas to church or a suit and tie..its the inside that God is concerned with, not the outward appearance...<br /><br />1 Samuel 16:7<br />The LORD doesn't see things the way you see them. People judge by outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."<br /><br />He's concerned with our hearts, our motivations..he could care less about our fancy clothes! I wouldn't blame anyone for leaving any church that says otherwise, its not biblical. Come as you are, He meets us where we are, theres no ladder to climb to Jesus, he climbs down the ladder to us...it's beautiful.Jen Znoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-90652811367187244102010-07-12T12:38:23.234-04:002010-07-12T12:38:23.234-04:00Hi Pither,
I do have that assumption, and I do re...Hi Pither,<br /><br />I do have that assumption, and I do realize many of the readers to this page will ignore it because its evident I have that assumption. But I did not always have that assumption; and as hard as it is to accept the possibility that some of you will one day be changed by the Word, thats what happened to me..so I'll keep saying it no matter how foolish I sound or appear to many people. If just one more person understands, hears the words..it's worth it.<br /><br />Why get half the story? Ian talks about his inspiration in who Jesus chose as his company..why stop there?, thats only half the story, you are being shortchanged to only hear the parts that you like, its the hard parts and the honesty that brings real change and real blessing. <br />If you had a friend who was a drug addict, is it more loving to leave him in that lifestyle and tell him he is fine? The love is telling him the truth, he is troubled and needs help..there is a better life waiting for him outside of his addiction. Any addict will react to a friend who says this with fierce anger (because addiction is strong and the break away hurts), but hopefully come to understand it as truth one day before the drug buries them under the earth. We all need help.<br />I say these things out of love and in humble spirit to you Pither, I realize its offensive..I used to be offended by it myself. God was gracious enought to bring people into my life that stood firm in the truth.Jen Znoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-2393976029755545772010-07-12T12:11:07.557-04:002010-07-12T12:11:07.557-04:00Jen Z, it's clear that you begin with the assu...Jen Z, it's clear that you begin with the assumption that the Bible is authoritative. But that's a starting point that many of us don't share with you. So it's no surprise that we would reach different conclusions from you. Bible-as-proof arguments fall more or less on deaf ears for many of us.Pithernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-50222934271239671362010-07-12T09:46:22.271-04:002010-07-12T09:46:22.271-04:00Mark 2:17
What Jesus said, why he hung out with t...Mark 2:17<br /><br />What Jesus said, why he hung out with the sinners... (this includes you and me and your whole congregation Ian, don't fool yourself.) We all need Him.<br /><br />On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."<br />Mark 2:17<br /><br />It takes more courage to tell people the truth (we need HIM!), than to stand up and feed everyone cotton candy; theres no substance to it. Be bold and go in truth. Thats where true love is Ian. I respect what you are trying to do, I think you really do mean well...but you are missing the LOVE in Christ and what he's done for us. I would love to have a cup of Joe with you sometime (you and Meg?)Jen Znoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-53803235544364635862010-07-12T09:37:24.591-04:002010-07-12T09:37:24.591-04:00John 8:1-11
What Jesus said when a woman caught i...John 8:1-11<br /><br />What Jesus said when a woman caught in the act of adultery was brought to him.....<br />"But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. <br />At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" <br />"No one, sir," she said. <br /> "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."...........<br /><br />But notice he says to leave her life of sin..he does not tell her to continue in her sin, but to leave it..walk away from it..there is something better!Jen Znoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-73481629547857371182010-07-12T09:31:20.544-04:002010-07-12T09:31:20.544-04:00What Jesus said about being born again...(dying to...What Jesus said about being born again...(dying to our selfish self)<br />"There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again" (John 3:1-7).Jen Znoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6902056258087567564.post-22273251618652718692010-07-11T23:32:48.773-04:002010-07-11T23:32:48.773-04:00Ian, your philosophy of tolerance reflects mine ve...Ian, your philosophy of tolerance reflects mine very closely. At quite a late stage in my life I've thought a lot about where I stand spiritually and much as I dislike labels, as one who doesn't believe we are guided by a supernatural being I suppose I'm an athiest. However, I strive to be a tolerant athiest and I think your writings have helped me greatly in reaching a greater understanding of who I am. I thank you for that and I thank you also for using modern technology to unselfishly share your thoughts with folk like me who don't have a physical meeting-place like C3 to mix and engage with other free-thinkers. Even as an athiest, I'm not a complete stranger to churches, but I find that when I attend a Christian church (the only ones available to me), I have to be very selective about my intake and also,out of respect for the believers, sometimes hold my tongue - it is, after all, their patch!Brickyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06643862636090957324noreply@blogger.com